Sunday, February 06, 2011

"A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby."

My God, I thought it was not possible. Well, it comes well from both Shia and Sunni sources. But, I think it is very disgusting, that one at all says something that one can touch etc a 9 year old. I have cousin who is 9 years old, and it makes it more disgusting. If one says this to a non Muslim, you know what kind of reactions you can get? I am also very disappointed by Khomeini (do not know if I can call him an Imam longer), in our age (30 years ago only), agrees that one can do it with a 9 year old ... ~Nima, 01 December 2009

Imam Muhammad al-Baqir (as) said: "Refrain from deliberating in Allah. Rather when you desire to contemplate over His greatness, contemplate over the greatness of His creation. Before you start judging our scholars; also, keep this in mind. Islamic morality does not change as times change. If we were to base our morality on what's proper in the moderen age we live in, then we would be lost and constantly regressing. If modern society doesn't permit such actions, but Islam does, then only our Allah knows the wisdom in such actions, which we can't grasp.

Here's the fatwa in full:

مسألة 12 : لا يجوز وطء الزوجة قبل إكمال تسع سنين ، دواما كان النكاح أو منقطعا ، و أما سائر الاستمتاعات كاللمس بشهوة و الضم و التفخيذ فلا بأس بها حتى فى الرضيعة ، و لو وطأها قبل التسع و لم يفضها لم يترتب عليه شى‏ء غير الاثم على الاقوى ، و إن أفضاها بأن جعل مسلكى البول و الحيض واحدا أو مسلكى الحيض و الغائط واحدا حرم عليه وطؤها أبدا لكن على الاحوط فى الصورة الثانية ، و على أي حال لم تخرج عن زوجيته على الاقوى ، فيجري عليها أحكامها من التوارث و حرمة الخامسة و حرمة أختها معها و غيرها ، و يجب عليه نفقتها مادامت حية و إن طلقها بل و إن تزوجت بعد الطلاق على الاحوط ، بل لا يخلو من قوة ، و يجب عليه دية الافضاء ، و هى دية النفس ، فإذا كانت حرة فلها نصف دية الرجل مضافا إلى المهر الذي استحقته بالعقد و الدخول ، و لو دخل بزوجته بعد إكمال التسع فأفضاها لم تحرم عليه و لم تثبت الدية ، و لكن الاحوط الانفاق عليها مادامت حية و إن كان الاقوى عدم الوجوب .

Can be found here as well:

مسألة 8 : لا يجوز وطء الزوجة قبل إكمال تسع سنين، دواماً كان النكاح أو منقطعاً، واما سائر الاستمتاعات كاللمس بشهوة والتقبيل والضم والتفخيذ فلا بأس بها، ولو وطئها قبل اكمال التسع ولم يفضها لم يترتب عليه شيء غير الاثم على الاقوى، ـ والافضاء هو التمزق الموجب لاتحاد مسلكي البول والحيض أو مسلكي الحيض والغائط أو اتحاد الجميع ـ ولو افضاها لم تخرج عن زوجيته، فتجري عليها احكامها من التوارث وحرمة الخامسة وحرمة اختها معها وغيرها، ولكن قيل: يحرم عليه وطؤها ابداً. إلاّ أن الاقوى خلافه، ولا سيما إذا اندمل الجرح ـ بعلاج أو بغيره ـ نعم تجب عليه دية الافضاء، وهي دية النفس ان طلقها، بل وإن لم يطلقها على المشهور، ولا يخلو عن وجه، وتجب عليه نفقتها ما دامت مفضاة وإن نشزت أو طلقها، بل وإن تزوجت بعد الطلاق على الاحوط.


TRANSLATION of the first, second is pretty much the same:

"It is not permissible to have sexual intercourse with one's wife that hasn’t reached nine years of age, be it permanent or temporary marriage. But there is no problem with all other pleasures such as lustful touch, embracing, and rubbing again the thighs, even with a suckling infant. If he does have sexual intercourse before nine years of age and does not penetrate, there is no penalty, but he has committed a sin. If he does penetrate causing the vagina and urethra openings to be one, she will become forever haram for him. Although this is as a precautionary measure. And it is more probable that her status as his wife is not removed. And the rulings of inheritance, and the prohibition of a fifth wife or marriage to her sister applies. He is also responsible for her maintenance as long as she is alive, even if he divorces her and even if she marries someone else after his divorcing her as a precautionary measure. And he is liable for blood money for the penetration and the amount is equivalent to that of an individual. If she is a free-woman, the amount is half that of a man, plus the dowry that she became entitled to through the 3aqd and penetration. If he penetrates his wife after the age of nine (causing the same damage as quoted above) , she does not become haram to him and there is no evidence that blood money is liable, but as a precautionary measure, he should maintain her as long as she is alive, although it is more probable that this is not obligatory."

I would not call Islam Satanic; for I doubt Satain could ever be so revolting.

Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth. Kahlil Gibran


Walt said...

Keep in mind my friends, that there are millions of good people trapped in Islam. Who have no way out, other than death.

misdirection said...

Here's a hint as to where this idea came from. Look up the Talmund.

Walt said...

I know little of the Talmud I can't say yet I agree. Seems odd though, considering that you don't really hear about Jews having sex with children. I mean, I've heard of Muslims doing it, and I've heard of Catholic priests doing it, my best friend was raped by one. I've even heard of some Protestant Christians engaging in this behavior (although their bible doesn't justify it), but never Jews. It will be interesting to find out more about this.

The attitude of the ancient Israelites toward the crime of rape can be found in the Bible, Deuteronomy 22:28-29, which states,

If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on [seize] her, and lie with her, and they be found;

Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

"To modern ears, this may seem a strange penalty for the crime of rape. What kind of punishment is it which forces the rapist to pay a fine to the father of the victim and marry the victim? Furthermore, it must be recognized that under ancient Jewish tradition, a girl was usually married by the time she reached puberty; the virgin “damsel” mentioned in the Biblical passage was understood to be a young girl between the ages of three and twelve and a half. Why would any sane person subject a raped child to marriage with her attacker?"